Do they actually do much work as they never seem to get very hot.

Just trying to explore every avenue regarding brakes to make them better?

If so , does anyone know where I can get RS29's as they are not listen on the website

P

Roughly 90% of braking will be done on the fronts, got told off AP that all they are there for really is to stop you spinning, when you start upgrading the rears then you are in effect, altering the brake bias.

I grooved my rear discs and upgraded the pads but will be going back to standard everything when they are done, I think proper touring cars etc run something like 97% front!

Roughly 90% of braking will be done on the fronts, got told off AP that all they are there for really is to stop you spinning, when you start upgrading the rears then you are in effect, altering the brake bias.

I grooved my rear discs and upgraded the pads but will be going back to standard everything when they are done, I think proper touring cars etc run something like 97% front!

Hmm not sure I agree 100% with you.

If you've upgraded at the front then you have already adjusted the bias, I believe Paul has done this.
So to therefore upgrade the rears in the same manner, you are just restoring the balance surely?

Paul, the RS29 rears are definitely available, haven't got a part number but I'm sure if you ring them they'll sort it as Backdraft are getting them for mine.

Hmm not sure I agree 100% with you.

If you've upgraded at the front then you have already adjusted the bias, I believe Paul has done this.
So to therefore upgrade the rears in the same manner, you are just restoring the balance surely?

Paul, the RS29 rears are definitely available, haven't got a part number but I'm sure if you ring them they'll sort it as Backdraft are getting them for mine.

Thanks Alan , I will get these on , maybe after my last ring trip in a few weeks as they are pricey huh!

Ta

P

Hmm not sure I agree 100% with you.

If you've upgraded at the front then you have already adjusted the bias, I believe Paul has done this.
So to therefore upgrade the rears in the same manner, you are just restoring the balance surely?

Paul, the RS29 rears are definitely available, haven't got a part number but I'm sure if you ring them they'll sort it as Backdraft are getting them for mine.

All you are doing by upgrading the fronts is swinging the % more to the front, as said, very little is needed on the back, I'm no expert don't get me wrong, just reporting what I've been told both off AP and a place that deals with race cars!

Some of our guy's have put on the 6 pot AP kits, they were having problems with the back end squirming and obviously need some sort of rear upgrade but this is quite an extreme upgrade on the front, I upgraded to same size 2 piece AP discs and have had no such problems!!

surely the only way you could really change anything, is by changing the brake bias more to the rear.
If all the weight and braking is at the front, the rear is only going to go light and upgraded brakes are not going to be any use. ?

If anything, upgrading the rears will have an adverse effect

As Jaybme has said, uprating the fronts will create more weight transfer forwards under braking, thus lightening the back end.

So, if you fit better brakes on the back, its more likely to lock the rear wheels (or close to)

I'll leave the brake bias "discussion" to the rest of you but I have RS29's all round, the rears do a surprising amount of work even though the back is very light under heavy braking.
No renault part is listed but an Audi part does fit the trw caliper, although the pads are a couple of mm narrower. Would have to look up the part number.

M

I was told the opposite of Shins description - Was told if you dont do the same upgrade to the rear when upgrading the front then the car will not brake as effectively as if all had been upgraded - as AlanN said if you change the front without changing the back then you are in effect changing the bias anyway as the front will now brake better than before but the back still the same so the percentage of work done by the back brakes would be lower

Yeah, I do hear what you are saying but let's keep this in perspective, your on about upgrading pads, they aren't gonna make that much difference to unsettling the car, upgrades on discs and disc size, then yes!

You also need to define what a front brake upgrade is. Many get confused with performance pads providing more ‘stopping power’. False. They can provide a higher coefficient of friction leading to a lower pedal pressure for the same retardation but the vehicle weight transfer characteristics and ultimate adhesion limits are not affected by the pad choice. There are still the same vehicle dynamics in action.

Put simply, you can achieve the ABS intervention with any reasonable pad and it will always be at the same point as you are not altering dynamic weight transfer properties or the point where a tyre loses traction and goes into a slip phase. You gain consistency, bite, initial temp rise and most importantly consistency and predictability with a pad upgrade.

There is a bias element with changing just the front pads but only if you shift the coefficient of friction bias significantly. The effect is minimised with a FWD and the difference between a µ0.5 and µ0.6 on the rears would insignificant. That sort of difference would be masked by the difference in fuel mass (weight in the rear) from 10 litres to 40 litres.

Once you start to play about with larger calliper disc swept areas or caliper clamping forces, either front or rear, then you need to start thinking about brake bias control.

Anyway how many people even know what pad coefficients they are running?

Oh and by the way, I just checked the coefficients and across a broad range of temps:

Ferodo DS2500 = µ0.5
Pagid RS29 = µ0.47

Is that a brake degrade? Discuss…..

Ferodo DS2500 - 0.42
Ferodo DS3000 - 0.54

Edited!

the rear pads are worth while upgrading if you look on ferodo's website its tells you that when fitting DS1.11/1.22's or DS3000 pads then you will need to upgrade the rears with DS2500 pads i have tryed the DS1.11 pads and they worked fine with renault pads in the rear but i am now running DS3000's and the car defenatly needs a higher friction pad for the rear .
if any one thinks the rear pads do nothing i have a pic of a set of pads removed from my car after 5000 miles and 5 trackdays and there is nothing left on them .

Heheheheh fine stick with your Ferodos if you prefer them and fair play to you.

Any other make too for that matter :yes[1]:

I just know what I know and trust when it comes to proper racetrack conditions over many years and in actual useage in many performance vehicles.
You won't find Ferodos on any of my vehicles.

Not wanting to get into a technical discussion, was just answering Paul's fairly simple question :signs015:

Oh and by the way, I just checked the coefficients and across a broad range of temps:

Ferodo DS2500 = µ0.5
Pagid RS29 = µ0.47

Is that a brake degrade? Discuss…..

By numbers alone perhaps, but I think most of us know the coefficient of friction is not the only factor in creating effective braking systems :sleep:

Heheheheh fine stick with your Ferodos if you prefer them and fair play to you.

Any other make too for that matter :yes[1]:

I just know what I know and trust when it comes to proper racetrack conditions over many years and in actual useage in many performance vehicles.
You won't find Ferodos on any of my vehicles.

Not wanting to get into a technical discussion, was just answering Paul's fairly simple question :signs015:
i know quite a bit about brake pads i have used enough pads over the years i would perfer to run performance friction pads on my car but after the last car where they destroy my paint and wheels .
they are better than any other pads out there and i have tyred most pads on the market and paged are not the best out there ;) and tbh the paged's are over priced .

its down to persinal prefrence tbh.

i know which pads last longer and cost a lot less than the other makes out there.
when i have sorted out my disks i think i will be fitting them on my car as well ;) and they will not be paged or ferodo

For someone who knows their pads they should know its PAGID ;)
:th_alc:

Amm - what did you find when you ran PAGID RS29's?

Amm - what did you find when you ran PAGID RS29's?

i used then on two of the yozzasport demo cars and tbh i thought they was at best average i can not quote on how much damage they do to the paint work or wheels

the ferodos are just a steping stone for me untill i sort out my disks

PS thats just my opinion i know pepole like difrent pads

For someone who knows their pads they should know its PAGID ;)
:th_alc:

tell me how meany btcc teams run them

tell me how meany btcc teams run them
I was referring to the word "PAGID" as you were spelling it as "PAGED" but seeing how the word "Many" suddenly has an E in it, Ill move quickly on......

Are you aware the BTCC teams have a regulation that limits them from the choice of component that they can use?


"Production bodyshell with a standardised roll cage design/specification. Front & rear subframes to incorporate specified suspension/brake components and engine location."


"Bespoke TOCA-sourced components for some major items such as gearbox, suspension, brakes, dampers, sub-frames and suchlike – thus taking tens of thousands of pounds out of the costs of designing and developing these for each team."

This is the reason why. No other my friend.

Are pagid still oem for ferrari's and porsches?

Whatever "average" means, RS29's are definitely not to be described as such in the set up they are part of on my .R. They bite from cold, unlike DS2500's (my experience) and do they not fade.

It's quite clear we all prefer different solutions but imitation alone will not produce an effective solution

You bet me to it Liquid. Brembo is Porsche street cars.

However I think you will find the following link useful:

http://www.braketechnology.com/news.html

I rate endurance racing and the trials and tribulations they entail over some 20 minute 2 litre sprint ;)

But I think Ive made my point.

I was referring to the word "PAGID" as you were spelling it as "PAGED" but seeing how the word "Many" suddenly has an E in it, Ill move quickly on......

Are you aware the BTCC teams have a regulation that limits them from the choice of component that they can use?





This is the reason why. No other my friend.


are ok my spelling is pap tbh

the brake pads on the btcc cars are free so they can run what ever pads they want quite a fuew of them run endlass pads and a lot of them run performance friction and othere run ferodo's as i have posted its down to what every one likes

Whatever "average" means, RS29's are definitely not to be described as such in the set up they are part of on my .R. They bite from cold, unlike DS2500's (my experience) and do they not fade.

It's quite clear we all prefer different solutions but imitation alone will not produce an effective solution


yes we do

i do know one thing i have had 5 trackdays out of my ferodos DS1.11's and they have 2 more trackdays left in them and they only cost £100 a set which is a hell of a lot cheaper than the pagid's and there friction co is the same as the DS2500 and the ds1.11's bite from cold
unlike the ds2500's i will be trying a different pad on the r next year tho after i have sorted my disks out

I think you will find that the BTCC rules dictate that THEY (the BTCC) will dictate what brakes are used. Not the team. I was after all quoting directly from their rules.
Regardless you often find that people will run a minor product not because its good or bad but as you say yourself - they are getting it for free. Nothing more. And if you are getting a **** pad FOC then you will use and just live with replacing it after every 20 minute sprint. So your original statement doesnt hold any relevance.

Funny enough I was speaking with the UK Distributor of Ferodo on Friday and asked if there was a comparitive pad in Ferodo's collection to the RS29's his answer was simply, "there is no comparison"

i know quite a bit about brake pads i have used enough pads over the years i would perfer to run performance friction pads on my car but after the last car where they destroy my paint and wheels .
they are better than any other pads out there and i have tyred most pads on the market and paged are not the best out there ;) and tbh the paged's are over priced .

its down to persinal prefrence tbh.

i know which pads last longer and cost a lot less than the other makes out there.
when i have sorted out my disks i think i will be fitting them on my car as well ;) and they will not be paged or ferodo


I really promised myself that I wouldn't comment any further however you have qualified your "argument" by stating that you "know what lasts longest and costs a lot less" whilst not actually commenting on actual braking performance.
If those are your most important criteria and again fair play if that's the case then get on with it.
I will personally use the best (IMHO) product for the purpose.
If it happens to be more expensive then so be it.
There's normally a reason for the price differential.
:wavey:

I really promised myself that I wouldn't comment any further however you have qualified your "argument" by stating that you "know what lasts longest and costs a lot less" whilst not actually commenting on actual braking performance.
If those are your most important criteria and again fair play if that's the case then get on with it.
I will personally use the best (IMHO) product for the purpose.
If it happens to be more expensive then so be it.
There's normally a reason for the price differential.
:wavey:


i am very happy with the performance of the DS1.11 i could brake later than another r26.r that was running pagid's all round and i have never had brake fade with them for the price and the performance and how long they have lasted i can not complain

I think you will find that the BTCC rules dictate that THEY (the BTCC) will dictate what brakes are used. Not the team. I was after all quoting directly from their rules.
Regardless you often find that people will run a minor product not because its good or bad but as you say yourself - they are getting it for free. Nothing more. And if you are getting a **** pad FOC then you will use and just live with replacing it after every 20 minute sprint. So your original statement doesnt hold any relevance.

Funny enough I was speaking with the UK Distributor of Ferodo on Friday and asked if there was a comparitive pad in Ferodo's collection to the RS29's his answer was simply, "there is no comparison"

the brakes that are dictated by the btcc roles are the front calipers which have to be AP and there is only one spec the friction material is up to the team to decide on

Alan & Kev , lets fook off eh? , I'm bored already!

RS29 rears ordered

SORTED

Working hard at it
Hopefully something sorted soon even as a trial. Alan doesnt know yet, but Ill mail him tomorrow. It is hard work here at times.

By numbers alone perhaps, but I think most of us know the coefficient of friction is not the only factor in creating effective braking systems :sleep:

So do I fella.

I like Pagid and use them because, obviously, they offer more than just a difference in coefficients.

Individual choice of course, but choice based knowledge and application and not just some mates personal view.

Most peole don't know what they are talking about though and just get hooked on a 'performance or racing pad'.

Alan & Kev , lets fook off eh? , I'm bored already!

RS29 rears ordered

SORTED

Good decision. For pads that is...

Alan & Kev , lets fook off eh? , I'm bored already!

RS29 rears ordered

SORTED

Already out the door mate!

Fooook me lads, they're only pads! LOL

I've used Ferodo for the last 3yrs (DS2500 with AP 2 piece discs) I use the car every day, have done 15ish track days and 2 trips to the Nurburgring and they have never let me down once and I use my brakes hard, got told the DS3000 had better bite but they are a more abrasive pad and that they would start eating away at the discs, which others have tried and proved!

I tend to go of what I've tried and tested not what I read, as everyone has different opinions about everything!lol

I've also been recommended Pagid by AP and will give them a go one day!

What's these RS29 then?

Let Icarus sort it out - he usually does :)

I've also been recommended Pagid by AP and will give them a go one day!

What's these RS29 then?


RS29s - A very good quality endurance orientated pad that is stable in the upper temp regions.

If like me you are into Porkers, you will find they already have a great reputation for that application.

Hence some of the comments on this thread.

I have been told that the Pagid RS14B is a good road/track pad, is the RS29 a step up then, bit like DS2500 to 3000?

Is it shins off RSOC? If so , hello!

The FRS brakes are far superior to the meganes , I ran DS2500's everywhere I went in that with no issues , the same CANNOT be said for the meg.

Basically , RS29's , are THE daddy :)

Yes mate, that's me, why you on there?

Right, did hear the problems with brakes, cracking and all that, just invest in some 2 piece, they are awesome, especially on track, worth the upgrade, mine have been on over 2yrs and still going strong with all the stuff mentioned above!

Will defo give the Pagids a go next!

for gods sake dont put redstuff on the rear, they are shockingly bad lol

brakes are a bit like tyres imo, they cause a lot of arguements over which is best but I think different brake pads etc suit different driving styles. What works for one person might not for another :)

I have been told that the Pagid RS14B is a good road/track pad, is the RS29 a step up then, bit like DS2500 to 3000?

Nope. The RS14 is very similar to the RS29. The RS29 is cited to be a bit more consistent in the upper temps.

Is it shins off RSOC? If so , hello!

The FRS brakes are far superior to the meganes , I ran DS2500's everywhere I went in that with no issues , the same CANNOT be said for the meg.

Basically , RS29's , are THE daddy :)

Well I never. So you rate DS2500s as well.

DS2500s work well in the Meg - depends how you use them.

You need to stop slagging them off fella.

Mintex , Pagid, Textar all made in the same factory in Hartlepool.

Special mintex made in someones workshop.

Mintex , Pagid, Textar all made in the same factory in Hartlepool.

Special mintex made in someones workshop.

Right i'm trying textar next then!! So how do they get away with selling the Pageds at £300 then if the Textar are only around £50 :dazed002:

Right i'm trying textar next then!! So how do they get away with selling the Pageds at £300 then if the Textar are only around £50 :dazed002:

Not the same compounds but the same factory. Special are made individually if needed.

I'm going to make my own from now on. A hybrid Ferodo/Pagid mix I shall name Frigid.

I'm going to make my own from now on. A hybrid Ferodo/Pagid mix I shall name Frigid.

...............................:laughing2:

I'm going to make my own from now on. A hybrid Ferodo/Pagid mix I shall name Frigid.

Bloody hell Brian - do I detect a sense of humour? :moon:

I have ds2500s front and rear....
No issues on road or when i did the south west circuit at bedford.
So i rate them!:yumyum:

Bloody hell Brian - do I detect a sense of humour? :moon:

Yep, but normal service will soon be restored.

I see nobody has mentioned the DSC yet.

Especially under the control of a novice or very aggresive driver, the DSC will be working hard to correct the cars attitude.
The rear ABS will be working quite hard, especially on a twisty circuit like an airfield or your favourite B road.
So the rears DO have alot to cope with and why some heavy handed drivers find the rears overheat on track.
Remember they are not vented disks and have far less cooling too.

i have got rs29s on front they work great i could not get them for rear and i feel it does make the rear end light could someone tell me what the part number is for rears so i can order
thanky

I see nobody has mentioned the DSC yet.

Especially under the control of a novice or very aggresive driver, the DSC will be working hard to correct the cars attitude.
The rear ABS will be working quite hard, especially on a twisty circuit like an airfield or your favourite B road.
So the rears DO have alot to cope with and why some heavy handed drivers find the rears overheat on track.
Remember they are not vented disks and have far less cooling too.

It's complicated enough trying to have a "discussion" about brake pads without introducing other elements :rolleyes:

I did mention on page one that it is surprising how much the rears do work, I have seen 150 degrees on the rear hubs while running RS29's which suggests the disc/caliper may be significantly hotter. Rears are available for the Meganes under an Audi part number.

:D

i have got rs29s on front they work great i could not get them for rear and i feel it does make the rear end light could someone tell me what the part number is for rears so i can order
thanky

Welcome to the forum! The rear pad number (Audi S3/TT E1158) so you can try some RS29's in there ;)

It's complicated enough trying to have a "discussion" about brake pads without introducing other elements :rolleyes:

I did mention on page one that it is surprising how much the rears do work, I have seen 150 degrees on the rear hubs while running RS29's which suggests the disc/caliper may be significantly hotter. Rears are available for the Meganes under an Audi part number.

:D

Come on, let's get into some ESP action. I would say the ESP only has a limited input to rear brake temps through undemanded selective wheel braking.

You would have be a prize nooob behind the wheel for if even to be significant. That is asuming you even have the wee ESP switch selected to 'on'.

Now if you dig provoking some rear wheel oversteer (showboat) with a bit of handbrake action, that might be different.

What's ESP? How do I know whether I have it on my car? :confused:

Do the Meganes use EBD? Can you feel when it's active?

In my experience I see the light flicker due to traction loss exiting corners, and the only other occasion was last weeek in the middle of craner curves (Donington) rater unexpectedly the light gave a little flicker, what was it doing?

I have never had the ABS active on track......

ESP stands for Electronic Stability Program. The idea is that if it senses the car sliding it applies the brake to the necessary corner to correct it.

The flickering light on the dash is too tell you either the traction control or ESP is doing something, so it will flash if it senses a wheel spin or slide

ESP stands for Electronic Stability Program. The idea is that if it senses the car sliding it applies the brake to the necessary corner to correct it.

Hook, line and sinker as they say...............:laughing2:

Sorry Rich, nice to know there are some serious and helpful people on here :)

Welcome to the forum! The rear pad number (Audi S3/TT E1158) so you can try some RS29's in there ;)
Thanks for that.

This died a death! So is there an actual answer?

Answer: Close Thread :p :p