Something i've been thinking about today (work has been slow going!) is, who is the greatest racing driver of all time?

So, that has inspired this thread.

State the following:

1) Greatest living racing driver.
2) Greatest racing driver of all time.

Oh and state the reasons why you think this.

I'll start with Sebastien Loeb cause of his consistency, unbeleivable speed, exciting style and the fact i tend to think rally drivers' are among the worlds best and bravest drivers. He's a legend that doesn't get enough publicity in my opinion.

Greatest driver of all time would be Ayrton Senna. This was concreted in my mind when i saw him at Donnington in '93 frankly embarass everyone and overtake down Eau Rouge like it was bone dry. A frankly awesome display.

So people, who do you think deserves the title?

including rally , touring cars f1 or any type of motorsport I take it?

Rich

Anything you like Rich as long as it involves 4 wheels and an engine. :)

ukayo katayama.

close thread

Senna gets my vote too - my only criticism of him would be that he really started the modern ethos of win at all costs.

Seano

ukayo katayama.

close thread

Greatest of all time? Guess it depends how you define greatness i guess.

1. Sebastein Loeb (just pips Walter Rohl) - personally i think rally drivers are the most skilled racing drivers - Far more skills required than circuit racers - and Loeb is the best there's ever been.

2. Steffan Belloff - check his nurburgring lap record in a Porsche 956 - unlikely to ever be beaten - destined for greatness and killed tragically early.

1. Sebastein Loeb (just pips Walter Rohl)

2. Steffan Belloff

Good choices; don't forget the reasons you chose them (avoids the thread just being a list of names and makes it more of a discussion). :)

Got ya, more info added.

2. Steffan Belloff - check his nurburgring lap record in a Porsche 956 - unlikely to ever be beaten - destined for greatness and killed tragically early.

Just checked it on Youtube. :sweatdrop:

Seriously impressive skills behind the wheel.

And youve seen the Rohl footage in the pikes peak audi quattro?? Holly cow!!

Yeah i've seen that. Video's of drives like that must make even some professional racing drivers feel a touch inadequate! :)

The one other driver i love seeing old footage of is Jim Clark. Whether in F1 at indy or in a lotus cortina, that fella was a very exciting driver.

Fangio.

Different era of racing, personality, bravery and skill driven results.

Ben Hur, must be on your list as well Conley,the way he could handle horse power was very impressive

Ben Hur, must be on your list as well Conley,the way he could handle horse power was very impressive

Ben Hur would be well ahead of the infamous Schumacher.

Not the greatest but Keiichi Tsuchiya is an amazing talent!

maybe not the greatest but always enjoyed gerry marshal throwing baby bertha around like an old bit of rag , god rest his sole..

Greatest driver of all time would be Ayrton Senna. This was concreted in my mind when i saw him at Donnington in '93 frankly embarass everyone and overtake down Eau Rouge like it was bone dry. A frankly awesome display.

Eau Rouge at Donnington?!

Good choices though, would definitely agree than Ayrton Senna was the greatest of all time, bravery, commitment, talent, pace, technical knowledge, all outstanding.

Check out a youtube vid of him testing an NSX around Suzuka, he's wearing some full on jesus sandals yet still drives the wheels off it.

It's hard to pick one from the current crop, but Loeb most definitely deserves a mention, I also love watching Lewis hustle an F1 car, and you can't deny Vettel has talent. Colin Mcrae was also awesome to watch, if in doubt, flat out.

Sorry, Craner Curves. Must have been having a senior moment! :)

Nigel mansell on the outside if the parabolica

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NJmB1F2mdE

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2952796/Horror-as-driver-reverses-through-car-park-wall-on-seventh-floor.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZn7ZQkJG30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWLAkWzhQgs&feature=channel


But on a serious note the new generation of drivers...Seb Loeb is amazing, Seb Vettel (hmmm two sebs)

How can ppl forget G Villeneuve, Senna, Schumacher

Rally drivers are they the best? or maybe F1? but thats another post

Ken Block has some epic skills

http://www.youtube.com/user/kenblockracing?blend=1&ob=4

http://www.youtube.com/user/kenblockracing?blend=1&ob=4#p/a/FD5AAFE71F25BF9F/1/qm2rWx0zcvM

for me its either senna or hamilton. i think if you put hamilton with schumacer in the same ferrari hamilton would have beaten schumacer. schumacer might have been the faster driver in qualifying, but i think hamiltons racing pace and overtaking would have got to schumacer and he wouldnt have been able to cope with the pressure

Sebastien Loeb

Senna and Colin McRae for me as the greatest..!!

Hailton and Vettell

Senna....RIP

there is no debate for me, no one else drove with more passion, desire to win or more entertainment. a true LEGEND

Colin Mcrae

R.I.P

I'd actually pick Prost over Senna interms of pure driving talent. I also love Mansell as well, loved how he might have lacked the natural talent of Prost or Senna but really knew how to ring a cars neck and force it round every bend as fast as possible.

Best all round, Sebastian Loeb. Would love to know the times he was getting when he tested for Red Bull F1 team.

My dad... coz he was my dad... and had a metallic green 'german ford' (no idea what it was, but that was how we referred to it... come on I was only 6) and it had the 'Dukes of Hazzard' air horns under the bonnet!! Well, it was the early 80s... Maybe I can get some airhorns for the Meg!!! Mmmmmmmmm

For absolute raw, natural and unbelievalbe talent on any surface I would vote for Loeb... It must be one thing to take a very fast car and drive it around the same circuit again and again and again does take a lot of skill, but we all know how bad an F1 driver looks in differring conditions/wet... but having control of a vehicle that is moving across various surfaces whilst keeping it at the limit on a course that you've written a few notes about... I struggle to remember all the pot holes and bumps on the 5 miles to work every day...

Colin mcrae, a child hood icon for me
Senna, unbelievable driving skill, although dare i say it, sometimes maybe pushing the boundry between bravery and Sligtly recless/fearless driving in my opinion, ok he did very wel with it but lead to the odd crash.

Best of today i like Loeb and button.

I like this thread.

Colin Mcrae, when he was on it he was the best. Living.......Seb Loeb. Rally drivers are in a different league.

Juha Kankkunen.

Has to be Hamilton as current best driver,I don't know to much about wrc but am a massive f1/Hamilton fan he sees overtakes that others don't see,he is similar to senna with his attitude to push hard all the way just pure natural talent,and obviously senna is best of all time

For achievement in constantly varying conditions ,and a incredible lack of crashing incidents ,compared to anyone else.
It has to be Sebastian Loeb.

A man who taught himself how to drive a rally car.
Cant see anyone winning more than he has.

Isnt winning the definitive gauge of a drivers talent.

2. Steffan Belloff - check his nurburgring lap record in a Porsche 956 - unlikely to ever be beaten - destined for greatness and killed tragically early.

+1 for me.

I know too many living ones to comment and I wouldn't like to show favouritism ;)

What people tend to forget about the senna/prost monaco GP (84 i think) when senna was about to pass prost but the race got stopped for rain was that belloff was actually in 3rd rapidly catching them both in his tyrrell.

For achievement in constantly varying conditions ,and a incredible lack of crashing incidents ,compared to anyone else.
It has to be Sebastian Loeb.

A man who taught himself how to drive a rally car.
Cant see anyone winning more than he has.

Isnt winning the definitive gauge of a drivers talent.

Not in F1... you can be very good (but not the best) and just have the best car and win... 2 years in a row... mmmm, who can I mean??

Colin McCrae! The most exciting driver I've had the pleasure of watching and what bravery and passion he had for the sport. He is the reason I have always wanted an Impreza.

RIP Mr McCrae, sorely missed. True Legend.

Secondly it gas to be Michael Schumacher. Are people forgetting that this man won 7 world championships. The main ingredient for a true motor sport champion isn't just raw talent, it's being consistently at the top, and that's what Schumacher did. The only F1 driver I think that could challenge him so far ( and hasn't been mentioned in this thread I believe ) is Vettel, I'm interested to see how his career progresses).

Not in F1... you can be very good (but not the best) and just have the best car and win... 2 years in a row... mmmm, who can I mean??

He is no slouch,and made Webber look like a monkey this year.
He won the race of champions and i recently saw him in a Karting competition with many other top notch drivers
all in the same kart,and he was over half a lap in the lead.
No mean feat in karting.

Loeb has consistently had the best car too. He is clearly pretty skilled behind the wheel though.

For me the best driver has to be Colin McRae. He made the wrc genuinely exciting to watch in a way it has struggled to match since.

Of the current crop of F1 drivers, I would rate Alonso as the best and most complete driver. I don't particularly support him though, I'm a big JB fan.


Not in F1... you can be very good (but not the best) and just have the best car and win... 2 years in a row... mmmm, who can I mean??

Loeb for me, consistency is key to any racing drivers career. And there's nobody that comes close to being that consistent over that amount of time.
Yes Colin was exciting to watch but was that just because you didn't know if he was going to make it out of the next corner or not?
Loeb has been at the top of his game for 8 consecutive seasons now. Rarely makes mistakes and when he's on it looks like he's out on a Sunday drive around the country.
You could say that he's had the best car but this isn't like F1 where you have spent millions designing a little wing that gives you .010 sec. These cars are very similar and this is why over a 40km stage there can be just .10 seconds between them. He's made it the best car by choosing the best setup for the conditions thrown at him.
For me a very special talent.

LOEB all the way!

Loeb for me, consistency is key to any racing drivers career. And there's nobody that comes close to being that consistent over that amount of time.
Yes Colin was exciting to watch but was that just because you didn't know if he was going to make it out of the next corner or not?
Loeb has been at the top of his game for 8 consecutive seasons now. Rarely makes mistakes and when he's on it looks like he's out on a Sunday drive around the country.
You could say that he's had the best car but this isn't like F1 where you have spent millions designing a little wing that gives you .010 sec. These cars are very similar and this is why over a 40km stage there can be just .10 seconds between them. He's made it the best car by choosing the best setup for the conditions thrown at him.
For me a very special talent.

LOEB all the way!

Not disagreeing that Loeb is incredibly consistent. He uses his own unique pace note system that is considerably more detailed than any of the other drivers past or present and really makes it work.

While Colin has a reputation for crashing (mostly in a pretty big fashion) when you actually look at the statistics he was actually a lot more consistent than a good number of his peers from the same era. It is incidents like crashing out of the GB rally in 2001 (to lose the championship) that perpetuate the myth that he crashed a lot more than other drivers. The modern cars while very quick (not far off group b pace before the 1.6l engines came in) are either much easier to drive consistently or almost all the drivers in the wrc have become much better than their predecessors (or that the shorter rallies are easier on both car and driver). I say we should bring back unreliable, fragile and largely undriveable cars like the delta s4 :yumyum:

Personally I hope the wrc moves back towards the endurance side of racing that it previously used to cover. I miss chasing the GB rally around the country through the dead of night.

Loeb for me, consistency is key to any racing drivers career. And there's nobody that comes close to being that consistent over that amount of time.
Yes Colin was exciting to watch but was that just because you didn't know if he was going to make it out of the next corner or not?
Loeb has been at the top of his game for 8 consecutive seasons now. Rarely makes mistakes and when he's on it looks like he's out on a Sunday drive around the country.
You could say that he's had the best car but this isn't like F1 where you have spent millions designing a little wing that gives you .010 sec. These cars are very similar and this is why over a 40km stage there can be just .10 seconds between them. He's made it the best car by choosing the best setup for the conditions thrown at him.
For me a very special talent.

LOEB all the way!

Also I found Colin exciting to watch because he always raced everywhere for racing's sake, regardless of what issues there might or might not have been (team orders, mechanical damage, broken fingers etc).

He is no slouch,and made Webber look like a monkey this year.
He won the race of champions and i recently saw him in a Karting competition with many other top notch drivers
all in the same kart,and he was over half a lap in the lead.
No mean feat in karting.

hee hee (I like being the devils advocate)... Is he really able to perform with an under performing car though!! Schumacher could, Alonso can and Hamilton has proven that a p1$$ poor Mclaren can still be tamed when you have the skills... and who was it that ran into the back of Webber in the wet behind a safety car... pure natural talent on that day ;)

Just watched the extended Senna... I reckon he'd have Vettel in a cart... AND he was definately robbed by the FIA of at least one championship... and managed to fight a cr@p Williams car to pole position (and ahead of a far superior (if not 'aided') Benetton)... before his costly 'car failure'...

Not disagreeing that Loeb is incredibly consistent. He uses his own unique pace note system that is considerably more detailed than any of the other drivers past or present and really makes it work.

While Colin has a reputation for crashing (mostly in a pretty big fashion) when you actually look at the statistics he was actually a lot more consistent than a good number of his peers from the same era. It is incidents like crashing out of the GB rally in 2001 (to lose the championship) that perpetuate the myth that he crashed a lot more than other drivers. The modern cars while very quick (not far off group b pace before the 1.6l engines came in) are either much easier to drive consistently or almost all the drivers in the wrc have become much better than their predecessors (or that the shorter rallies are easier on both car and driver). I say we should bring back unreliable, fragile and largely undriveable cars like the delta s4 :yumyum:

Personally I hope the wrc moves back towards the endurance side of racing that it previously used to cover. I miss chasing the GB rally around the country through the dead of night.

Loeb: I seem to remember seeing a short piece on pace notes last year (2010) on Dave... Loeb's notes had angles of turns (in degrees) that were soooo more precise than you'd think possible. The guy must see the road better than TomTom before he's actually there!

McRae: Saw a exhibition event where he was up against Travis Pastrama. The last section was in a stadium, as he came around the last corner, he took too much of the earth rolled the car over and back onto its wheels then floored it across the line... lost to TP by a few seconds!! Definately the way to lose...

WRC: Personally I'd like to see it back on TV... What was wrong with the coverage Dave gave it? ITV manage a whole day of BTCC!!

Found it...
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GbbHIkxO4k>

I think you have to define 'racing' driver?

WTCC/BTCC/F1 and the like are wheel to wheel racing. Rally's and the like are against the clock racing.

I think you have to define 'racing' driver?

WTCC/BTCC/F1 and the like are wheel to wheel racing. Rally's and the like are against the clock racing.

rallying has so many variables thrown in the equation.
You have to be multi talented in all conditions and surfaces,not just a few corners on a track.
And just to keep it on the road at the speeds and angles they reach is astounding.

Also the biggest balls required were every off is almost always a car destroyer

Look at raikkonen,a ex F1 world champion,what could he do in a rally car??..very little.

Whole new level of skill required.

rallying has so many variables thrown in the equation.
You have to be multi talented in all conditions and surfaces,not just a few corners on a track.
And just to keep it on the road at the speeds and angles they reach is astounding.

Also the biggest balls required were every off is almost always a car destroyer

Look at raikkonen,a ex F1 world champion,what could he do in a rally car??..very little.

Whole new level of skill required.

Raikkonen was gifted his world championship by McLaren... Does he have enough skill/talent to make it again?

Raikkonen was gifted his world championship by McLaren... Does he have enough skill/talent to make it again?

Yes. If Lotus develop the best car (or at least a consistently competitive one), Kimi has a good chance. If they don't, no chance.

Yes. If Lotus develop the best car (or at least a consistently competitive one), Kimi has a good chance. If they don't, no chance.

The bloke rated himself to highly,when it didnt go his way,
he chucked his toys out the pram and buggered off to rallying...good move..not.

Likes a drink to..and the pies.

Bring Back Group B rallying....