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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'll be fitting a sub to my r26 tomorrow to get some very much missing bass in the car, along with the sub im fitting a way amp - 1 output will be used for the sub do have 1 spare
I've currently got the pioneer custom fit Kevlar jobbies in the front and infinity kappa co-ax rear speakers - i had up until now intended to amp up the rear infinity speakers as i know they can handle a bit more power but after speaking to a mate he thinks it would be better to amp up the front speakers as thinks I won't hear any difference just doing the rears, I'm sure I would notice a difference but then I suppose it's obviously going to be more noticeable if I do the front - just not sure how much more power the fronts could handle, though I guess once the sub is in I can cut the bass going to the speakers so should be able to cope going a bit louder

Any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Oh and one other part that put me off doing the front is the wiring - I would have to join up to the o.e wiring as sod wiring into the doors etc so kind of defeats the point of using nice wiring
 

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Yes! Night and day difference, I was never very impressed with them off the hu but when amped there is a vast improvement.

Female iso connector and just connect onto the standard speaker loom with the amps output, this is how i've done mine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
wicked - that solves that then - will try that this afternoon, out of interest is that with the standard head unit or upgraded?
 

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A car never going to be the ideal place to get good sound as we all know. But I'll ask you this one question.

Do you go to a concert and face away from the stage?

The problem with just amping the rears is that it drags the sound stage backwards. Rember 6x9's in your first car. Lol.

My fist step when I eventually get in gear will be amplified fronts and a sub and some aftermarket speaker in the rear ran of a small amount of power. To tr and create a balanced sound stage.

Andrew.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ah cool - that's good then - if yours improved even after trying with a decent head unit it must be worth doing so cheers for that

Webby - all fair comments mate, I suppose I don't think of it on that sort of scale due to being so close to all of the speakers anyway but I know what you mean about the 6x9's etc, just seems like its all coming from behind you, my idea of amping the rears was only really due to them being better than my fronts but as bmh says it worked for him I'll definately try that
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
All done - was over the moon for a few mins then one of my pioneer mids has gone pop and no longer works, will have a look at it tomorrow but by the looks of things its defunked - possibly had the gain a little high - sounded perfect though, no distortion so thought they were ok.
Oh well time to upgrade them if it is nackered
 

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I've just fitted the pioneer TS-Q131C in the front of a 250 just running off the standard HU and it has been a big improvement. I'm fairly confident the amp is sufficient to drive the speakers in this case - it can go painfully loud. There is some of that hollow bass pop if I push the bass boost too high and increase the volume, which i think is caused by the speaker not being able to produce the requested frequency at the requested amplitude, rather than the amp. You can hear it go from a toneless bass hit to a sort of popping sound as you increase the boost. Seems logical as i wasn't expecting much bass from a 13cm speaker anyway!

The truth is an amp is a pretty easily thing to make in modern electrical engineering. Beyond a certain point, the only reason to spend more on one is if you need more power. A 100W amp producing 30W output power will sound just as good as a 120W amp producing 30W of output power, for a given s/n and distortion. If you're asking for 80W or 90W, then there is an argument for more headroom. Speakers should also have decent headroom over the amp output, for maximum sound quality. Most of the time though, when people say an amp is "better quality" than another, what they really mean is that they prefer the sound signature of one amp to the other. All amps have a frequency response curve. A lot of "consumer" amps are biased to produce more bass because that's a more mainstream sound. Ideally, both speakers and amp should have a flat frequency response, then you're hearing the final master of the recording as it was intended to be heard and as it was mixed in the studio. Then you can EQ it however you like.

Not sure if you're using the standard HU or not? That's my biggest concern with adding another amp - it would be speaker level rather than line-level, since there is no line-out. Therefore, if the power stage in the HU has massive bass tail-off, adding another power stage down-stream from it is only going to do so much - it can't amp what isn't there to begin with, and even if you could massively EQ the bass up on the second amp, the noise floor would come up with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I wasnt really expecting any real improvement from the pioneers after amping them up but the difference is unbelievable - more bass, better clarity etc etc, was well worth doing in my opinion
The sounds is really nicely balanced now in my opinion - could do with turning the gain on the sub down a little but other than that it's brilliant
Oh and my mid hadn't blown - the speaker connection on the car loom had a little bit of surface rust so fitted a new connector and all good
Mine is running off a double din pioneer unit



 

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I wasnt really expecting any real improvement from the pioneers after amping them up but the difference is unbelievable - more bass, better clarity etc etc, was well worth doing in my opinion
The sounds is really nicely balanced now in my opinion - could do with turning the gain on the sub down a little but other than that it's brilliant
Oh and my mid hadn't blown - the speaker connection on the car loom had a little bit of surface rust so fitted a new connector and all good
Mine is running off a double din pioneer unit
Was gonna say, you'd be unlucky to have it blow when it wasn't showing any signs of distortion. Speakers have moving parts so the voice coil will go eventually just due to wear and tear, but they last years baring manufacturing defects. I just had a centre surround speaker blow in my home cinema system after something like 10 years. They can last a lot longer than that too. Speakers are where it's worth spending real money in any sound system - they are what produce the sound and have by far the biggest effect on sound quality. That and the shape of the room ;)

I'd be inclined to say the amp itself just has "better" bass/treble frequency response - that might just mean a natural sound signature which produces more bass/treble. There is really no such thing as "clarity" in amp specs, despite the fact that as a buzz word it's often used. Ultimately, all an amp does is take an analogue wave and increase it's amplitude. Baring distortion, poor response at the frequency extremes - tail-off - or high noise, there's not really much that can go wrong. There's no A/D conversion, no loss of resolution or anything like that. Everything in the original signal is there in the amped signal. Usually "clarity" just means more highs/mid-highs. Coupled with that, hearing is so subjective that without a proper volume matched test there is no way to be sure if there even is a difference. In blind tests where the same song is played through the same hifi system just at different volumes, most people will say the louder song came from a "better quality" hifi. Plus, whenever we spend money on audio equipment, we want to hear a difference. That's nothing against you personally - I'd level the same accusation at myself, and I've been a musician since i was 8, in everything from orchestras to bands. I've also spend thousands on speakers, amps (not least for guitars), headphones, car audio etc.

I read a really interesting article once about a volume matched blind ABX test comparing a range of hellishly expensive CD players and amps (£2000+) with a cheap 1980s sony discman. They used a load of self-confessed "audiophiles" - the kind of people who reckon they can hear a difference between 20 quid speaker cables and 300 quid ones. After the test, without knowing the source, most of them said they preferred the discman ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
right well if thats the case ive come to another conclusion - because it is louder I can no longer hear myself singing therefore the quality has improved drastically!
 

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I have the pioneer speaker set-up fitted... which was a nice gain over the OE speakers, I've been looking into different HU / amping options... But I get lost in the maze of audio equipment!

Can you use the existing loom when amping the car speakers, or does a new wiring set-up need running through the car? (obviously power and earth need fitting for the amp..) ?

And, is there a plug and play rear speaker set, like the Pioneer TS-Q131C for the front?
 

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right well if thats the case ive come to another conclusion - because it is louder I can no longer hear myself singing therefore the quality has improved drastically!
Haha! Yeah that's a good point. I can't sing for **** either, so anything that drowns me out can only be an improvement!
 

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I have the pioneer speaker set-up fitted... which was a nice gain over the OE speakers, I've been looking into different HU / amping options... But I get lost in the maze of audio equipment!

Can you use the existing loom when amping the car speakers, or does a new wiring set-up need running through the car? (obviously power and earth need fitting for the amp..) ?

And, is there a plug and play rear speaker set, like the Pioneer TS-Q131C for the front?
I think there is a rear version, but it's hard to find. Far as i know though, the only difference is that the rear set comes without tweeters and is therefore cheaper. Correct me if i'm wrong anyone?

Therefore, if you're prepared not to save the money, you could just fit the front set in the rear. I left the tweeters out of my 250 anyway. Tried em but the treble was painful, so took em out again.

Personally for the rears I think I'm going to make a replacement parcel shelf out of MDF and fit some 6x9s in that, then just extend the rear speaker connections into the boot and put some nice neat plugs in for easy removal when transporting stuff. I know it sounds a bit chavvy, but the best value car stereo i ever had involved a pair of 6x9s and I wanna get that bass back (don't want a sub). In my case, i'm going to try without an amp first. If that isn't loud enough, i'll fix the amp to the parcel shelf and wire it in from there. Power is going to be a pain though.

If you're putting the amp in just after the HU as far as i know you should be fine using the existing speaker wires in the wiring loom.
 

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One of the best ways to get more bass and higher quality sound is fit the doors and rear area with dynamat, thats what I have done to mine and its amazing. Costs loads tho.
 
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